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maybe we need another chart


And why this administration and Congress is trying to ram through these bills without anyone, even themselves, knowing what's in them. The more we learn, the more the disapproval, and the more intense the hysterical kick-back from the left in attacking their critics - We the People!

No wonder they want to hide the facts, spread disinformation and false promises, and keep us ignorant of the truth until it's too late.

I'm old enough to remember "The Chart" which helped demonstrate the nightmare that was then government-run HillaryCare:

Charting State-Run Healthcare - 1994 Style

Hhmmm ... I wonder which one of those agencies, boards, and commissions would house the "death panels" empowered to "ration" life-saving care and medicine for the elderly, the the most vulnerable, and those deemed (by bureaucrats) least essential to the society they envision.

I suppose if you're a union member that might get some cushy job inside this maze of bureaucracy, such a prospect might appeal to you. And, obviously, Sen. Spector who has switched sides and is no longer bothered by big government and massive bureaucracies. ;-)

However, for the rest of us, we're seeing more and more details our despite all efforts of our representatives to hide them from us.

Sorry, guys! We aren't buying all those vague promises you're selling non-stop when all we want to see is WHAT's IN THE BILLS you're trying to sneak through in the dark of night!

Anyone want to do another chart? I have a hunch it'll be 4 times this size. How about you?


( 6 comments — Leave a comment )
Oct. 4th, 2009 05:17 pm (UTC)
I agree with you more on the HC issue than realize.

This system is over complicated. There are enough things to attack in it without inventing bogus issues as the "conservatives" are attempting to do.

Simply put - there would be no need for any of this if they would REGULATE the insurance industry with regards to the dishonest and unethical practices.
Implement a series of policies and incentives to bring them into line with ethical and HONEST practices - regulate the policies regarding:
recision and delisting,
fraudulent medical coding issues,
bogus reinterpretation of policy languages,
close non-payment loopholes,
punitive taxes for ABSURD windfall profits at the expense of those covered,
bogus (post contract and regular) preexisting condition clauses - - - - (or implement a public policy for those who are difficult to insure because of the preexisting conditions and support this with payroll and or punitive tax on the insurance companies - while giving them tax breaks on picking up people with preexisting conditions thus giving the insurance companies an incentive to cover them).
REMOVE EMPLOYER BASED TIES TO HEALTH CARE - it is TOTALLY ILLOGICAL and counter productive to the entire system.

I do not necessarily feel there has to be a public option or such a maddeningly complicated organizational chart. Just start regulating an industry that has shown that it is ONLY concerned with profit over the actual health of the people they are supposed to be minding. It is IN THE BEST INTEREST of the insurance industry to BREAK these rules and cut corners where ever possible - they cannot police themselves. GO LISTEN to their congressional hearings. I sure did. They come off as some sleazy and unscrupulous money grubbing Corpocratic con men.

I will never support any plan that leave the power with them.
Oct. 5th, 2009 09:36 pm (UTC)
Oh, the people who before these Congressional committees are the bad guys? :-D

Not to say there are problems in any business, but you want to put more power in the hands of the biggest swindler and exploiter of the American people in the world? The most poorly managed enterprise in the history of mankind? An organization currently tens of trillions of dollar in debt, that, along with state and local governments, controls almost 45% of the GNP and STILL can't break even? The U.S. government?

Did you ever think the REGULATIONS and MANDATES by the government has led to skyrocketing health care costs? Not "competition?"

I am not a defender of "corporate" greed or mismanagement, but I am a defender of free enterprise and capitalism. But what kind of profit margins do health providers get? About 2%? If every penny they made was confiscated, how much lower would health care be Mike? How about, maybe it would skyrocket even more since the "government" ( the taxpayers) would be paying. Isn't that what happened after Medicare was passed?

Should you get your way, there will be two kinds of health care for Americans. The best health care in the world for politicians and their families and friends, the rich, and the well-connected. (The kind of health care a 78 year old man like Ted Kennedy got but you know good and well few other people would have at his age and in his condition.)

Then there will be health care for the masses, rationed out with and by the same kinds of people that talk a good game but can't deliver the goods.

And should that time come, remember ... you asked for it Mike. BIG GOVERNMENT, and every intrusion into every aspect of our lives that kind of surrender to tyranny invites.

It'll be too late then to try to put the genii back into the bottle.
Oct. 5th, 2009 11:27 pm (UTC)
Given my choice between the so called swindlers in Congress and the swindlers of the insurance companies I would take the swindlers in Congress any day. I have dealt with the policies and work of both in my life and I find the insurance industry (specifically the health insurance industry) to be FAR worse and much less accountable.

There are many reasons for increases in costs - but my opinion is much traveled and much researched. I have lived in and been treated in government healthcare. I know what it is capable of and I know what to expect of it.

We are the only modern and industrialized country in the world that has no real system of UHC. It's sad and pathetic to think that we could not make it work. We can. And 60% of the population wants to see it happen.

The two kinds of HC you comment on - already exists - and the separations are more then just two tiered - and the separations in quality of coverage is far more out of balance than you suggest. You cannot frighten me with these bugaboos. I have spent time in both worlds.

As said - I would support a plan without a private option if the egregious actions of the industry were reigned in. This is an industry that knows that the average person has NO ability to really fight the system - their system. I will never support a system that makes incentives to rip people off instead of supporting their policies.

Shrugging and saying "the industry has problems, so do all industries" is a cop out. We strive for better. What sense is it to walk past a leaky faucet every day and just say, " eh? So what? It always leaks."
Oct. 5th, 2009 11:52 pm (UTC)
The vast majority of people who have insurance are happy with it. of course stuff happens, and there can be more safety nets.

Having the Nancy Pelosis and Harry Reids of the world running Health Care, people who have never run ANYTHING except a campaign, never had to do a legitimate payroll, think money grows on trees scares me senseless.

FLASH! Medicare and MedicAid are bankrupting the country and the states whose budgets are pushing 30% of total expenditures alone.

Btw, remember that video of Congress BOOING President Bush at that SOTU speech I put up because he warned Social Security was going to be bankrupt in a few years? Well, he was RIGHT! It should officially be in the red in the next year.

So much for that "lockbox" huh? Wait'll these people get their hands on the 15-17% of the economy that health care accounts for.

Two-tiered, Mike. Not in the way it will be under government control. You forget I've seen emergency rooms and hospitals at first hand for the last 2 1/2 years. ANYONE comes in with a headache or chest pains and they get THE BEST of care - no questions asked. I saw a Palestinian woman with a kidney problem (on MedicAid) have specialist after specialist come in over the course of 9 days. All on the taxpayer!

Obama has made it clear, over and over. His INTENTION is to eliminate private sector insurance and eventually force us into a single-payer government-operated system.

And stop with the "straw-man" arguments saying all I do is shrug and say everyone has problems so lets keep the status quo. I get so tired of you guys and Obama saying your critics want to keep everything as it is.

There are any number of alternate proposals but they don't open the door for socialized medicine so they are ignored by the media and the Democrats in Washington.

I hear Obama and the Dems say they'll pay for this monstrosity, in great part, by cutting waste. Hey, Mike! If they can cut waste, WHY HAVE THEY NOT DONE THAT ALREADY and use the money to help people buy insurance.


There are actually about 10-14 million American citizens who CANNOT afford health insurance. Instead of dealing with actual problems on an incremental basis, you want to destroy the entire system and turn it over to the GOVERNMENT.

Socialized healthcare systems are imploding all across the globe. Economies are buckling. People who are supporting the excesses of you leftists are rebelling. That's why VOTES are abandoning leftist/socialist candidates by the droves.

That people are so gullible as to buy into this stuff amazes me, but then there's no accounting for taste, is there?
Oct. 6th, 2009 12:15 am (UTC)
You must know different people than I do. I know very few people who seem happy, or even somewhat pleased with their insurance. I hear occasionally, "It's better then it could have been." and "It's better than some other insurance." and now and then I get the , "E, it's ok."

It ain't (sic) ok. We can do better.

Medicare and Medicaid can and SHOULD be fixed. Look at the symptoms and the individual problems and fix them.

It is not a straw man argument. It is the guts of the problem.

Ed - I have spent a lot of time around hospitals in and out of government systems. I am not saying that the private system should close up shop and go away. I am saying the control of individuals healthcare should not EVER be under teh control and manipulation of the employer - and insurance companies cannot be trusted to police themselves - and tey have demonstrated that over and over and over again. I really don't care if we get a so called socialized medical system. If they could fix the system in place now I would go along. The insurance companies will not do it. They will and have fought tooth and nail for every he'penny on the dollar they might have to trim off their profit margins. They are going to win again.

I agree - they have not trimmed the waste - it is the nature of any organization that over time the edges of a well dressed system fray. Now and then people go in and trim the edges and before too long they get frayed again . . . just like hedges. The problem is not the size it is the efficiency. Efficiency has to be constantly addressed.

I cannot wait to see the next election. I am looking for candidates that lean left so much they need a cane to hold themselves up. Ok kidding I just loved the visual. But really - it seems AMAZINGLY interesting to me that people are getting so nasty over healthcare that they will scream over their Tipple Cheese Burger and Chilie Cheese Fries - but wouldn't do step one to fix their own health by just taking the stairs - and when politicians suggest such simple things they get teased. If we don't throw money at it, there's NO WAY it must work - right?

I think one of the problems is that some on the right see even one step away from their stoic traditions as being blasphemy and heresy. They see one brick out of place and their whole system is in jeopardy. It is about balance. The needs of the many are equal to the needs of the one. There is room for safety nets and self responsibility. There MUST be room for the individual as well as the collective.

I know it is a digression... but... I was musing on the reasons we ever decided that a corporation was politically equal to a person. I recalled an old history class, did some research. I recalled the case where it all happened. It's all so depressing. It's silly. It should never have happened - technically it never did.
Oct. 6th, 2009 12:33 am (UTC)
I go by actual survey research, Mike, not anecdotal experience. Here's one similar to other surveys I have seen over the years:


Guts of the problem? You are sometimes incoherent. The guts of the problem is that the Democrats and Obama want their takeover of health care and refuse to listen to their constituents (the majority of which DO NOT want their planes) or the opposition.

If their health care plan is so wonderful, why are they threatening people who don't want to participate with penalties, fines, and INCARCERATION!

The health providers HAVE TO CONFORM to Federal MANDATES and provide coverage for things people may not need or want. It is FEDERAL REGULATIONS and FEAR OF LAWSUITS that cause costs to rise.

How many stories have you heard of people who go in with head pain, run up a $10,000 bill, and discover they have a sinus infection.

The doctors HAVE TO ORDER a myriad of tests because if they don't and some serious condition is later discovered they can be sued for millions, even BILLIONS!

Balance? In government? When the large and small interests groups have to be catered to? "Corporations" like GE with their lucrative government contracts. Wall Street. The Unions. Minorities. Illegals. Etc. Give me a break!

GOVERNMENT, Mike! And if you think health care is expensive now, wait until it's "free!" ;-)
( 6 comments — Leave a comment )

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